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saulgoode saulgoode is offline
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Why do the Liberals want to put healthcare under federal supervision?

Why do the Conservatives oppose it so much?

There aren't ethical reasons, don't argue that. If you think anything in our federal gov't is done out of "goodwill," then you are naive.

The Federal Liberals want the ~control~ and the ~income~ from healthcare in the US, crossing state boundaries, and it has always been one of their top priorities at the Federal Level (NOT always at the State Level, mind you, though it weighs heavily in our Far East and Far West blue states).

Why do the Federal Liberals want healthcare so much, and why is it the first thing they go after every time they gain control of congress?

Why is controlling our healthcare industry at the heart of the Liberal charter?


- Saul
- October 29th, 2009, 09:11 am
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notyet notyet is offline
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because they already control your education, your retirement and your income. it is the next logical progression in the advancement of the social state.

and it is the largest segment of the economy that is outside of the regulation of the federal government- and there is a lot of tax dollars to be collected off of it.
- October 29th, 2009, 09:59 am
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D_Lion D_Lion is online now
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It is one of the largest, fastest-growing government expenses.

That is unsustainable.
- October 29th, 2009, 04:12 pm
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Can_I_just_be_Jo Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
It is one of the largest, fastest-growing government expenses.

That is unsustainable.
Are you saying this a reason we need health care reform? Because that is like saying well my kids can't keep their room clean so I will give them a bigger room and more stuff and see if that helps.
- October 29th, 2009, 05:08 pm
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D_Lion D_Lion is online now
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Jo, you make a simplistic assumption.

Just becasue most people favoring the common health reform proposals believe the Democrats are motivated by expanding the welfare state, does not mean expanding the welfare state is the only motivation or possible outcome of reform.

I favor reform to impose rationing, reduce administrative bloat, and curtail the out-of-control profiteering by executives, lawyers, and politicians.

In any case, my fact remains: a 6+% CAGR element on 13% of GDP cannot be sustained in a 3% CAGR GDP. Full stop.
- November 1st, 2009, 09:41 am
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Can_I_just_be_Jo Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
Jo, you make a simplistic assumption.

Just becasue most people favoring the common health reform proposals believe the Democrats are motivated by expanding the welfare state, does not mean expanding the welfare state is the only motivation or possible outcome of reform.

I favor reform to impose rationing, reduce administrative bloat, and curtail the out-of-control profiteering by executives, lawyers, and politicians.

In any case, my fact remains: a 6+% CAGR element on 13% of GDP cannot be sustained in a 3% CAGR GDP. Full stop.
To me allowing government control is too extreme when other measures haven't been tried. A simple modification of sec. 106 can allow people to see and understand how much of their income is really is health care. It would allow them to make choices as to how much coverage they need.

We didn't have this problem when everyone had high deductible insurance. Most costs were paid out of pocket so those costs were kept down or the doctors wouldn't have patients. I work for doctors. We bill 2,000 for a procedure that has a cost of 900. We have to because we have a contractual write down of 1,100. Of that 900 part of the costs are safeguards against malpractice including extra test because we can no longer take someone's word about their current state of health. Yes if you lie about your health and are injured because of it the doctor still loses the suit. Then there is the allotted portion of the doctors malpractice insurance. Staff which includes a huge billing and coding staff. Medicare and Medicaid being the most time consuming. Then the last bit of unneeded cost is the portion of Medicare and Medicade that must be shifted to private insurance because doctors are not paid the full costs through those programs.

In my opinion fix these problems first then we will see if any other reform is needed.
- November 1st, 2009, 11:14 am
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Jacquesne Jacquesne is offline
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So, in order to reduce a government expense, we pass a bill to...create...more...bureaucracy? Sorry, that was hard to write. It's like saying we're paying our Congressmen too much so let's form a committee to oversee the pay increases of Congress. For some reason the idea that the overseers have to be paid too seems to avoid being factored in somewhere.

The idea that we can reduce administrative bloat by creating a new administration board to oversee the situation is so counter-intuitive I'm frankly quite confused. "Reform" requires enforcement. Laws don't just get passed and then suddenly everything works the way it says.

While we're talking about economic issues, I've got a great idea...why not pay off my credit card bill by using another credit card? It's genius! It can't possibly fail!

And we wonder why our economy collapses. Sigh. I'm just hoping that someone gets the connection. We'll have to see =).

Jacquesne
- November 2nd, 2009, 11:10 am
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D_Lion D_Lion is online now
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Jeez ... what?

End "insurance" entirely. End the insane paperwork and handwritten (!!!, in 2009!!!) forms. All gone, done, eliminated. 20% of useless bloat, gone.

End $10 Million paydays + for rich insurance executives, end lucrative paydays for rich lobbyists, rich politicians, rich lawyers, etc.

End $1 Million treatments which extend life by 30 days.

End people gaming the courts for settlements.

That's the savings, all $400 Billion of it.

***

If you don't agree, come with an intelligent response to the unsurvivable fact that medical expense is growing more than twice as fast as the economy?
- November 2nd, 2009, 03:50 pm
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Jacquesne Jacquesne is offline
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End...insurance?

So everyone pays for their medical expenses out of pocket? So only the rich can afford expensive medical procedures?

How does that improve health care?

I'm totally confused now. So you're saying scrap health care reform completely and get rid of all insurance companies? How does that accomplish anything other than meaning a huge portion of our population can no longer afford medical care? That stuff isn't free unless you want doctors to work for charity and companies to give medical equipment away.

What exactly are you proposing here?
- November 2nd, 2009, 04:36 pm
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Rand_011 Rand_011 is offline
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I am sorry ... That made me laugh ... The idea that having the government handle insurance or paying claims would reduce paperwork just about made me drop to the floor from laughter

Let's see ... Just a quick comparison on length of forms ... MediCare Sups (looking at open enrollment) is 17+ pages ... Blue Cross is 9 (4 of which are state/federal mandated disclosures) ...

So ... How in Pete's name is just having Uncle Sam handle going to reduce paperwork?!?!?!?!?!
- November 2nd, 2009, 04:59 pm
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