Male arrogance?

I call it male confidence.

And excellence. And anyone who disagrees is obviously just jealous!

I suppose I didn't think of it that way. I have trouble telling when something is being chauvinistic or not.

Guys have a very un-PC path to navigate. On one hand we're supposed to be men; confident, assertive, powerful, etc. On the other hand those things are bad and put women down. And men aren't supposed to be bad. Or maybe we are. I don't know. Eventually I'm just going to give up and just be a bad guy. It's so much easier and pretty much all my friends have already given up. I'm just stubborn, I guess.

And yes, that is me disagreeing. Obviously guys don't avoid virgins. If they did how would there be non-virgins? Last I checked they came from virgins sleeping with guys who are sleeping with a virgin at the time. Duh.

Mostly what I've been reading in this thread is that virginity is something we'd prefer to avoid. How does that have anything to do with its sacredness? How is that controlling women and their sexuality if we're more comfortable with women who are already comfortable with their sexuality? Isn't this exactly the opposite of what you're accusing us of?

We're not saying our sexual prowess is going to unhinge a virgin. We're saying that there are many people in our society who put a heavy burden upon virginity. Mothers still tell their daughters that the first time is special and they should "save" it for the right guy, don't they? So when women "lose" that virginity she has all these societal preconceptions about it. Men, on the other hand, are encouraged to lose it (and in many cultures it's practically a coming-of-age ritual).

The "destruction" of her social fabric is what unhinges a female virgin, not our incredible sexual powers. Now she has pressure on herself that this guy has to be "the one," she has guilt if it was an accident or part of the moment and now she considers herself "dirty" and sleeps with every guy she can, etc. You can talk about the Evil Patriarchy all you want but ultimately these things are not something the average guy pushes onto women. More likely those things were taught to her by her mother (who, of course, was brainwashed by the Patriarchy...ugh).

As for older virgins generally speaking people are not virgins long after their 30s and 40s. It's very rare and it has always been very rare. Married couples are generally not virgins. Historically most people get married (and used to get married much earlier, further decreasing the likelihood of older virgins). And those who didn't were looked at with even more suspicion than people today.

So when you see an older virgin you have to ask yourself why for both genders. Are they someone deeply religious (or whatever) who's waiting for the right person? Are they just bad at relationships? Are they antisocial? It doesn't have to be a bad reason but the longer time goes on the likelihood of someone not forming a deep enough relationship with the opposite sex to have intercourse gets lower and lower. Once you get into the late 40s and 50s people are generally married. And in the process probably not virgins. It's not a Patriarchal Conspiracy, it's statistics.

And women do the same thing to try and make a guy's first time a good one. I've talked to plenty of women who are concerned with have sex with a virgin because they are worried about his awkwardness, worried that he'll be too nervous, etc. I would think it's more likely a virgin guy would have trouble in relationships than a virgin girl.

The guys are just saying that they would want a girl's first time to be special, not just spontaneous "in the moment" sex. Something she's sure she wants. This is taking her feelings into account, not trying to control her. It's not a favor, it's respect and concern.

Ugh. Maybe I should just go with the whole bad guy thing. I am, after all, a White Male, the Source of All Things Wrong With The World. I could just lie and say I hate women and all other races besides my own (whatever that is) and I wouldn't have to play the apologetic monster trying to fight against my evil animal instincts.

Unfortunately I'm not willing to give up that easily. Because I'm arrogant, of course!

Jacquesne